The Myth of Death: There is Only Life Ep 175 | Guest: Betty J. Kovacs, PhD

Have you ever wondered if there is a part of you that survives the death of the physical body? 
Julia Marie welcomes a pioneer in consciousness studies Betty J. Kovacs, PhD to Evolving Humans for an in-depth discussion about her experiences with loss, grief, and the realization that there is, indeed, only life. Betty details the loss of 3 family members (mother, son, then husband) in a span of 3 years - all of them in auto accidents.
Her stories about how these events forever changed her perspective on the purpose of life itself and on whether there is a part of us that lives on after the death of the physical body can give us all hope and comfort.

This wide-ranging conversation explores the science behind how this kind of after-death interaction with our loved ones is possible, the brain hemispheres, the power of the heart, and a 17th Century philosopher's visionary ideas.

In this episode, you will learn about

• the power of intent
• why the heart is the most powerful brain component
• what Betty has to say about grief and the grieving process

There's so much more to learn about from this conversation, and you will want to stay tuned for the story of how we are all living life in snakeskin boots!

SPECIAL THANKS to  Pixabay's PrabajithK's piano-endless-by-ParabajithK-118998 for the bed to Betty's dream.
RESOURCES:
For more information about Betty's work, please go to her website: https://www.kamlak.com where you will find videos, podcast interviews, articles, webinars, and the links to both of her books.
Or you can click on either of these links: https://www.kamlak.com/the-miralce-of-death/ or https://www.kamlak.com/merchants-of-light/

Thank you for listening to Evolving Humans!

For consultations or classes, please visit my website: www.JuliaMarie.us

Evolving Humans with Julia Marie is now on YouTube, and will offer more than the podcast episodes there, so give us a "SUBSCRIBE"!

https://www.youtube.com/@EvolvingHumans731

You can find my book, Signals from My Soul: A Spiritual Memoir of Awakening here:

https://tinyurl.com/Book-Signals-from-My-Soul

Transcript

This transcript was generated using ai, and therefore may contain errors.

Julia Marie (00:00):

Have you ever wondered if there is a part of you that survives the death of the physical body? We're going to explore that with Betty j Kovac PhD on today's episode. Welcome to Evolving Humans. I'm your host, Julia Marie, and this podcast is for visionary people who are exploring the true nature of reality and want to contribute to the global awakening. You seek to deepen the connection to your multidimensional self so that you can live a more conscious life. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (00:34):

I'm so excited to introduce you to the incredible work of someone I consider a true pioneer in the field of consciousness studies. She's Betty Ko, PhD. Betty, I've been looking forward to our conversation today, and thank you so much for the opportunity to hear from someone. I consider my spiritual elder. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (00:54):

Thank you. And I love your introduction for the program for the podcast. Beautiful. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (00:59):

Thank you. Today we're going to be talking with PhD's, author, international speaker. Professor received PhD in symbolic mythic language from of California Irvine. Within a three year period, Betty experienced the deaths of her mother, her son, and her husband in three separate auto accidents. Her mother was struck by a car and died instantly. Almost a year later, her son Peached was in an accident. He lived for 13 days and died a year to the day and hour after Betty's mother had been struck and killed for the next two years after his death, Betty and her husband experienced the ongoing presence of their son's consciousness. She writes about all of this in her first book, the Miracle of Death. There is nothing but Life. Betty, can we start with how the title for your book came about? Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (02:06):

Yes. I had written the book and I wondered, I was wondering what should the title B? And I was looking over a couple of the dreams and Kim, my editor, was here. And suddenly I said, well, it should be called Miracle of Death because these are what to our conscious mind today, we consider miracles. What ish and I had experienced with PhD, and it was so funny because it was in California in August, and when I said that it started thundering, which is unusual in California, at least it was then. And it went on for about 20 minutes and I said, oh, I think we got the right title. The Miracle of Death. In a sense, it's a miracle to us that that to me seems be a miracle. I have no desire to keep this body alive as some do today for hundreds and hundreds of years. No, it's wonderful that I can step out of this particular body, step into spirit, and then I can make a choice when I want to come back in a very different suit, you might say, Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (03:21):

Yes, I totally agree. I too am in the boat with you. I don't want to keep this particular vessel alive ad nauseum. It'll outlive its purpose and then I'm ready for a new experience. Exactly. So what does the book offer to people who are dealing with death? Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (03:42):

I think the most important thing that I experienced and that the book relates is that we're immortal, simply immoral. We do not die in terms of who we're, and all my life I had had that question I simply didn't know when I was very young, I just wondered about things, but I had no way to figure it out. And I went to nursery school and there I heard wonderful stories about a man was very ethical and beautiful and loving, and that was a wonderful image to grow up with. But I wanted to, but I didn't know. I kept thinking, what if it isn't true that we to live? And so when I was out of high school, I decided to go to college and what I wanted to do is study. Could I find out by going to college, could I had to know things?
(04:38)
And of course, when I went to college, I pretty much heard about the western worldview, which is scientific. It can't be questioned. And that is there's nothing but matter. There's ake of nature, there's no meaning, no purpose. When we're dead, we're dead. And that was horrifying to me. But at the same time, there was the religion story. So I still hope that that was true. And I studied religions, I studied mythology, which is the root or the expression of religions, and then shamanic traditions, which is actually based on direct inner experience of the other side. And so I first finished my doctorate, I decided I really through with the rational mind for a while, I went to Peru to work with shamans to see if I could experience something there. And I'm not sure, I think it was a start, but it really wasn't until our son died that we experienced his consciousness and that changed everything. So the most important thing in the book is to express the fact that I now know I have question that we immortal and that Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (05:55):

Thank that and that part of the journey, the combination of experiences that your entire family had is what we're really going to delve into today. Yeah, there are a lot of books out there that share stories similar to yours, but the reason why I wanted to highlight your story in particular because of that decades long arc of experience that involves the entire family. Yes. And I think it's important that people understand your background. You spoke a little bit about it as a framework or a foundation for our discussion, how those studies impacted your experience of what came. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (06:38):

Well, first of all, I was open. I was always open hoping that the scientific view was not the whole story, but not able to accept on belief, the religious view. So I was open and I met a young man dated a young man who was just becoming a Lutheran minister. And his first party to celebrate his first parish was with other young men at their girlfriends who had trained at Andover Newton Seminary. And they were just full of ideas. And that night I sat there and listened to them talk. They talked about Jung in psychology. I had never heard of Carl Jung, the Swiss psychiatrist, and they talked about mathematics and physics. And I just sat there. I didn't know anything, but I was open. And then after everyone left, he took me into his study and I chose two books that I wanted to read.
(07:39)
The most important one was Modern Man in Search of a Soul. And so I think it was really Carl Jung who brought these two worlds together, the scientific and the spiritual direct experience. And I think my opening, my openness to all of that helped. And I think that's what happens to us. People come into our lives who help us to answer those questions as we come into other people's lives to help them answer questions. And so I was open to it, but my studies, I chose comparative literature because I didn't want to go into any of the sciences because here I could deal with human lives and that was a wonderful thing. But then I went into psychology and then archeology because I was trying to find out these things. So I would say this studies after, well, no, it was in my master's period that I really became interested in mythology. And of course I had been listening to my dreams after I had met J's work. And so my dreams helped me for years. So I would say it was the studies and my own open, but I still Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (08:53):

Thing that I like to remind people is that what we desire to experience will come to pass eventually in some way it'll, your longing brought you some incredible experiences. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (09:12):

It did. And when I was in South America, there was always the talk of leaving the world of common space and going into the spiritual world. I think they talked about it as leaving the al and going into the, I'm not sure I'm pronouncing that right. That's my memory of it. And they absolutely knew that there was this other dimension and there were certain triggers that would help us to open to that. But I remember one of the shamans from the Amazon said to me, you'll experience it because you long for this so much. But I felt by that time I just finished my doctorate, that I was so disciplined in the left brain that it was hard to open up to the spiritual visionary experience, even though I had always listened to my dreams. And there was a part of me that just felt like, oh, yes, but when, and I hear people say to me, well, you can do this, but I can't. No, we all are the same. We all have what we need to open to that and it's our heritage to do so. So he insisted that I would, and even though I doubted him and everything else at that time I did, it did happen because the longing and the intention were there. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (10:38):

And that's the important thing to remind people of that our intent informs in many ways our experience. Oh, exactly. Well, I believe it's also important to have a brief discussion about imagination, the role it plays, and also to talk a little bit about symbolic versus conceptual language that almost touches on the fact that we need to be whole brained. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (11:05):

Oh, absolutely. And this was one thing that the university actually helped me with because I was introduced to the various schools of study of imagination or symbolic consciousness, and some of them didn't appear to me at all. They were too left brain influenced. But I really, of course through other studies I had come to have some knowledge of the left brain and the right brain. And I also knew that in the West, by the time of the French Enlightenment philosophers who said, oh, we've preached the apex of intellectual development. We're the best in the world world, and everything that came before is nonsense, the mythic, all of that is nonsense. And so for so many that in the 17th century, so many years we lived with just a throwing away, just missing the dream or the vision, whatever. Just give me the facts that was just, we need the facts.
(12:04)
Well, one of the theorists, and he's one of the earliest symbolic theorists, was Jean Batista Vico also. Well, he was in the 17 hundreds, and the enlightenment philosophers were also still powerful in the 17 hundreds. They began in the 16 hundreds, late 17. So Vico was writing at the same time that these French enlightenment philosophers who knew it all were influencing western culture, but no one paid attention to him. But what he said was absolutely brilliant, and he talked about the fact that we have both of these hemispheres, the left and the right, although he used other language, but he said the symbolic mind, it gives us our first language, which is symbolic language. This is our first language. And by the way, it does not logic. It has a poetic logic, and it is this logic that feeds the left brain. And the left brain has its own abilities of dissecting, taking apart, analyzing, but it must always go back to the right brain to get its wholeness.
(13:20)
And so I thought he said, it's so beautifully, he said, there must always be a dynamic and integral movement, a continuum of movement between these two hemispheres because we need both of them. Each has their unique function, but they need each other. It's a different way of looking and experiencing the world, and we experience through the right brain, which is profoundly connected to the heart, which is the most powerful brain component. And so it's open to all of this other information and knowledge and experience feeds the left brain brain can really, we love the left brain, we want to analyze and so on, but we can't be sure of anything until it goes back into the right brain. Its own wholeness as said so well, for the mind to experience its own wholeness. This continuum must exist. I think this is brilliant. I think that no one has really gone beyond that understanding except Ian mcg Gilcrest has written about these two hemispheres beautifully and much more detail because scientifically and medically we've been able to know much more detail about this. But it's still, Vico still stands that we must for our own wholeness, we cannot live just in the left brain. And that is what the western culture done. It's just thrown away the significance of the right brain didn't even know that the heart is a brain component until the 20th century and lived in the left brain. What we know, we cannot really think logically if we're not connected to the right brain, to that poetic logic of feeling and experience. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (15:14):

Our left brain, when I'm teaching about the hemispheres of brain to students in my I class, I tell them the left brain in many ways is limited by its function, and it's only through allowing the right brain to have a little input that we can actually perceive what we need to. I have also always said a heart has a mind of its own, but I never actually put together that it's probably a component of the brain. It's the most powerful Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (15:50):

Brain component. It gives more information to the brain components that we know usually of the brain components than the brain gives to the heart. And it's in kind of a Taurus shape. It can be many feet beyond us, this powerful energy field of the heart. And if we sit by someone, we begin to ize our heart rhythms or when we embrace someone. But the heart is so powerful and the mystics and modern mystics, no, that the heart, it opens us to the spirit dimension. And so they teach a meditation that focuses on the heart to realize that that's the portal, and then that goes into the right brain and then into the left brain. And it's that circulation that's so, so important, that continuum of movement. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (16:49):

Yes, thank you for clarifying that. And it's a beautiful image to feel the flow of the energy through those parts. They're not separate. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (17:02):

And when this has always been the problem, especially in Western culture, but in many other cultures, when we lose an understanding of who we're, and then often there will be those who want to control others, and the way you have power over others is that you scare them to death. If you can make them fearful, then that energy flows backward into the reptilian brain because that's our wonderful brain to protect ourselves. But if it keeps flowing back into the reptilian brain, it's not flowing forward through the right and the left. And don't think when around today I hear so experts saying things that are totally irrational and people don't seem to realize there's no rational connection there, but that happens when there's an attempt to scare us. It's hard to be rational. So we need that flow from through the reptilian brain and various brain components and the heart and the heart feeding those brain components. Otherwise we make nonsense. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (18:15):

It's like we get short circuited somehow we do Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (18:18):

The wonderful way to put it, and we do so need to be aware of that so that we don't allow ourselves to be controlled by because this needs freedom to be whole, needs freedom. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (18:32):

Well, we just need to be in this world not necessarily of it. Yes, that's true. Well, earlier I summarized the losses You experienced your book, the Miracle of Death spans a decade from 1991 to one, but one of the stories that stood out for me the most was about the two years from 1989 to 1991 when it seems almost as if the universe was preparing all of you for what was to come. So can you tell us about that time and your current perspective about that? Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (19:10):

Yes. It's for two years before PhD's death, I had dreams of his death and sometimes it would be very clear that I would receive the message that PhD was dead and there was something in my psyche that couldn't accept it. And so I would then think, oh no, it was my friend's son. And then I grieved as though my own son. But I had so many, many dreams and I thought, well, it's symbolic. And then my husband also, he wasn't involved in this way of life until Peach's death, but he had two weeks before Peach's death, he was in his office here at home working and suddenly he saw Peach's body superimposed over his car on the side of the freeway and he knew immediately that he was dead. It was two different dimensions himself.
(20:09)
It's him, he's right dad for a little while. And then he completely forgot it until the phone call came in. That peach had been in an accident. We both happened to be here that afternoon. Usually we weren't at the same time in the afternoon, but then those were the two years. I realized later that I realized the pattern later after he died, but also death and being on the other side. And then he had another one in the year just before he died. The interesting thing in that last dream was that there were candles lit everywhere and there was chanting. And he said to me in the dream, mom, can you hear our chanting? There was something in that chanting that was so powerful and so spiritual. He felt, it's interesting because the first experience I had afters death, there was this Native American chanting that was just so incredibly beautiful, and I thought, oh, that's what it was.
(21:31)
It was his passing this chanting, this sacred energy and frequency exists. And I knew that we were being prepared earlier that I said we heard it in our sleep in the dream. I think we did. I had the dreams. Peach had the dreams, my husband had the vision. And then not long before his death, he had that sense of the chanting. And I think that was a powerful preparing us. I think all of it prepared us on an unconscious level because I looked at it symbolically, which is great because we were on living life fully and joyfully, but there was on a spiritual, deep spiritual level, we were definitely being prepared for it. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (22:17):

I enjoyed that you included that in there because sometimes I understand we can only see with clarity when we look in hindsight at our experiences. So I appreciate that you put the preparatory piece in there. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (22:32):

Yes, we see the pattern later. I also have in miracle of death, the powerful dream I had when I was pregnant and I dreamed that I was in the country and my mother's, I saw an one room schoolhouse with an upstairs, which I had never seen, and I don't think it was structured that way, but I went in and I went up the stairs and there was an old man smoking a pipe and I also saw Chinese lanterns and one was filled with light and was vibrating, and I knew that that was the child that would be born to be and that we had all made this agreement. And then as he smoked his pipe, a painting appeared facing me so that I could see it. See, and I saw a young boy, of course in those days we didn't know what the gender was of the child, but it was a boy.
(23:26)
And he came in from down below and was walking. It was kind of in darkness and he was walking very quickly and had a pack on his back or a bag of some kind, carrying it, not much. And he then came to a gate that on his side said, death. And on my side it said life. And he passed through that gate and then suddenly he just walked a short distance and then quickly went straight up the mountain. It was there and out the top in which it was different colors of light and then totally white light. And he was gone. And I didn't understand that dream at the time. Now the old man was still there, and he came toward me and it was interesting. There was a table of food suddenly and he said, no, I cannot eat this dimension's. Food was, I couldn't understand that at the time, but when I looked back but saw so clearly, it was showing me he was going to be born as a boy, a young man and his life would not belong his work. He had a small bundle on his back and that he would walk then straight up and out, back into the light. And that meant so much to me. Later after he died, the feeling of these dreams became very real when I began to see the pattern. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (24:44):

I tell people all the time, pay attention to your dreams. Dreams come only in service of our healing and our wholeness. And you're giving beautiful examples of the power of someone who lives a dreaming life. And I appreciate that. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (25:01):

And I was grateful to my knowledge to that young minister who introduced me to Carl Jung because he really was a mentor for me, and I really did start paying attention to my dreams. They guided me for years were powerful dreams. And of course there were those that I couldn't make sense of, but I wrote them down and tried to understand them, but then come something really profound. And that's what we see in the patterns I think. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (25:28):

Well, I did notice that in the dream you just shared on his side of the gate as he came into this world, it said death. And I have been contemplating lately, it must be because when I communicate on behalf of those on the other side, they seem to be joyfully welcoming their loved ones home. So what is death on our side of the gate is life to them and vice versa. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (26:01):

Exactly. Yes, exactly. And always on the other side, the experiences that and I had with is that it was a tallness and such love and in's case. We realized we were all here because we wanted to work for the earth, that there was a love that brought us here in whatever small or big way we could help it. We don't measure it in that way. It's that if there's love and compassion and you respond, then that's what is important. But that there was just such an understanding and wholeness on the other side. And I think we do give that to come in. We probably choose such characteristics as are needed for the particular work. And each of us has a particular work that we can do having given ourselves or achieved those abilities in whatever way. And each of us is necessary. It's like a piece of a puzzle. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (27:01):

And none of us is insignificant, frankly. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (27:04):

No, Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (27:05):

We all matter. We all matter. Talking about Han and Peach in chapter four, you tell of how your son's death shattered your husband's paradigm and how after that experience, he said he was never able to look at the earth in the same way again. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (27:24):

Oh, that was such a powerful experience, that first visionary journey with and lasted quite a while. It was totally changed him, and he was beginning to change because he had that experience before's death. And then in the hospital, there was a time when the doctor said he may die within the hour and ish, and I stood there, there were people who were there all over the hospital. We stood there alone outside the trauma center room where they were working on him. And I felt this electric shock almost coming. And I looked at him and I thought he could die with a heart attack. I could feel that energy and that I said to him, which was strange for me to say, I said, ish, if we're called to do this, we can do it. Usually he was the strong one, but he needed that. And it came forth.
(28:17)
And afterwards he told me that he had a vision that he saw peach sit up in bed and a do. He had dove with a ball of in and he his heart and lay back down. Then he saw him at Machu, the smaller mountain, and he had one arm, the left arm up and the right arm down to Ish. And he said, I didn't know through that vision whether PTI was going to live or die, but it wasn't an issue because I knew that he was eternal and that our love was a bridge between these dimensions that would always connect us. So he'd had some experience. And so when he had this experience, he saw that he and peach were twin souls, that sometimes they were born as two people as in this time, other times they were born as one person. And he had the experience of that in which he saw all of these souls.
(29:19)
He was going through a funnel he called it, and he could see sometimes there were two, sometimes one. And when they were two, peach explained to him that life. So that was such a profound experience. He never doubted that there were twin souls. He also saw how important coming into the world is to sometimes to always, we grow and can grow and develop, and we can also bring gifts for others. He knew He had no doubt. He also, he saw a light at the end of a tunnel and then gradually, gradually, gradually that got clearer and clearer until he saw that it was the earth in such a loving way. And that's on the actual front of the book that looks just like, and when I saw that icon, I couldn't believe it. I bought it immediately and we got permission to use it. But it absolutely was said that he experienced respect for the respect for himself. He said, I had never felt respect like that. And then he said, realized that out of respect, respect we love respect of, and that opens us to, he was a changed man. When he sat up on the side of the bed after that vision, he said, I'll never look at the earth in the same day again. And he was transformed by that experience. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (30:50):

It was beautiful to read and was beautiful to hear you. Now you do say that our view of death impacts every aspect of our life. So Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (31:04):

When we know that we're eternal, it gives us a completely different understanding of what we're doing here. But if we think there's no meaning, we're going to be dead. That's it. People have terrible fear. I have friends who are even older than I'm and some as old as I'm, and some of them fear death. They don't know. They haven't had that direct experience. They're very much in the C of the Western world paradigm. And I think it affects anxiety, the anxieties they have, the illnesses they have, their way of perceiving the world. If we directly experience that we are eternal beings, it changes a perception of everything and there is no fear of death. So I think that everything we do is changed by that. For so many years when I was teaching and teaching mythology, I would say that there are many are three phases really of the younger and then coming into self-consciousness.
(32:15)
And then the mythology show us a third, which is a Christ consciousness, cosmic consciousness, much higher sense of unity of all things and connected with the glue of love. And I would've to say to them, I have never experienced that. But because it's throughout mythology and many people have, I'm open to it as a reality, but I haven't experienced it and in the last two years of my teaching, then I could say, I have experienced it now and we all can experience it. I know it's a reality. Well, it made it possible to live and even experience joy after our son's death because I knew that we had agreed on these events in our lives and that they were for a reason, a purpose. And that while as a mother, a parent, you miss the child, your life has changed forever. But when you see the larger purpose behind it, everything changes and death does not become what the western world, Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (33:33):

That's the message that was hoping communicate through your experience here today that if we can open ourselves up to the possibility of something beyond this that can help people cope with the loss in way Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (33:51):

I discovered that is creative and that if we allow ourselves to just get on that boat and let the grief be what it's because I think when I was going through all of these experiences, it was like swimming. I had to survive. I was swimming. Then there was a time when I had been to, I think it was a 50 year celebration of a marriage and all the young children were there just beautiful. I came home and that's when I really felt totally into this total grief that felt like it could never be healed. And the next day, just as though I had been on a journey, but let it happen, and as day by day went by, the joy began to come back in the wholeness of the picture. Grief will not keep us in one place if we let it take us. And to see it in its wholeness, grief to experience it is an incredible journey. And it'll then show its wholeness if we let it, and I was by the end of the week, I was in good shape because I let the wholeness come back in. But in that one night I let the mother, the grandmother, I would never be, that was and his presence. I had to experience that lack in the physical world because that's real. We do experience that. But the whole picture of grief is that there is a larger picture to it and ultimately there is joy.
(35:39)
And I think for a while I did, but I knew I had to survive the three death and then I had all these experiences I but still mother, wife was gone in this dimension. So yes, I think we do have to acknowledge that then we'll be able to experience the other side of it. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (36:07):

I appreciate the fact that you're alluding to the human aspect to the process because we've talked mostly about the metaphysical experiences you were having. And I by no means want to leave the impression that, oh, she had these experiences and therefore it was easy peasy with this tremendous loss she experienced in her life. No, it wasn't Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (36:33):

No one's. Life has changed forever. It's a very different life. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (36:39):

If you don't mind, I want to ask you about dancing life in snake skin boots. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (36:46):

I saw I was lying on the bed facing north and I felt him, he was like a bard, an ancient bard dancing, and he came into the room, you might say dancing, and it was like the music and his movements, which totally in sync. And he was mom, dance life and snake boots When he was a little kid. We got him a pair of boots. He wanted so much snake skin boots. And I remember he went next door that three little girls lived next door. They were good friends. And when the mother came to the door, he was dancing best he could in these boots. He was so excited about them. And he had been up in the mountains and had brought home rattlesnake skins and they were hanging on the wall, but he said, it's sacred. The snake is a sacred and why? It's because the snake sheds its skin constantly and becomes new.
(37:47)
And so it says, we must dance life and snake boots. We must die to the old structures that were beautiful and or not. Whatever these old structures were that we've moved and created beyond, then we release that skin and we have a new skin and we, that's the way we dance life. We're constantly allowing the old structures that now are no longer necessary, no longer however beautiful or horrible they were. We release those skins and we dance life in a new skin. And I thought, yes, that's a good message. I want to try to live with that. And as I grow older too, I think I see so many differences in my own body and I think that's the way it works. The skin loosening up and it'll go and I'll dance life in snake. I'll go into the spirit world. There's a new skin there and I have no fear of death. Of course. Nobody wants to be sick and suffering, and I think that as good creators, we to create a world which that's not be the case at any. Yes, it's lively, tructure. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (39:02):

Any final message you'd leave with us? Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (39:07):

Yes, that the western world of nothing but matter. Its limitations that every single one of us has come with a gift. As the shamans used to say, we all come to create our own medicine, and it's that medicine that we give to the world. It heals us and we need to give it to the world in whatever way. Sometimes we're never known, but there is someone or some people who are changed by that medicine, saved by that medicine that every single person, no matter what the life has been, is here for a purpose and has a gift to create and to give. And never should we demean our own gifts. It's easy to do to say, well, I'm just this and I'm just it. Gift that you came to give and it should be respected and loved and given. Betty J. Kovacs, PhD (40:14):

Thank you. Before we close the show, I'd like to tell the listeners how they can get ahold of you, and that would be www, that's website. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. You can find on that website articles, podcasts, videos, webinars, and both of Betty's beautiful books. They're also available in print and ebook wherever they're sold. And if you subscribe to the newsletter, you'll receive a sample chapter from her newest book, merchants of Light. Betty, it's been an absolute delight. Julia Marie (40:56): 

I will leave you with this message from Betty because everyone can use a reminder about our purpose. We all come to create our own medicine, and it is that medicine we give to the world. Every single person, no matter what their life has been, is here for a purpose. What is your gift? What is the medicine you've brought to this world and how can you begin to share it? Thank you for continuing to listen and support this podcast with your ratings and reviews. We are grateful that you continue to share these episodes with two friends so that we can expand our presence in the world and reach more people.