The Chiron Effect: How to Heal our Core Wound and Transform our Lives Ep 155 | Guest: Lisa Tahir

 In this episode of Evolving Humans, host Julia Marie interviews Lisa Tahir, a licensed clinical social worker and author of "The Chiron Effect: Healing Our Core Wounds through Astrology, Empathy, and Self-Forgiveness."

The discussion centers on understanding and healing core emotional wounds through the placement of Chiron in one's astrological birth chart.

Lisa explains how Chiron's placement can reveal specific vulnerabilities and recurring patterns in our lives, and offers insights into how individuals can begin their healing journey.

The conversation also touches on the concept of "psychoastrology," which combines astrology with personal psychology, and the importance of self-awareness and self-compassion in the healing process.

Additionally, Lisa discusses the collective wounding of the United States based on its Chiron placement and offers practical advice for personal and collective healing.

Listeners are encouraged to explore their own Chiron placements to better understand and transform their core wounds.

RESOURCES:
Lisa Tahir's Website

Thank you for listening to Evolving Humans!

For consultations or classes, please visit my website: www.JuliaMarie.us

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Transcript

This transcript was produced using ai, and therefore may contain some errors.

We have all experienced sadness, disappointment, or the loss of something meaningful in our lives. We adapt and often find ourselves stuck in unconscious patterns. You'll learn about how the placement of Chiron in your birth chart can illuminate what your specific core wounding is and how you can begin
your healing process. Welcome to Evolving Humans, the podcast for Awakening Souls. I'm your host, Julia Marie. Settle in and get ready for another spirited conversation. Lisa Tahir is from New Orleans, Louisiana. She is passionately committed to working with people to help them heal by utilizing an array
of modalities, including energy, healing, yoga, meditation, nutrition, exercise and more. She is a licensed clinical social worker and is certified at EMDR Reiki and as a thought coach to the institution for transformational thinking in Los Angeles, California. Her website is nola therapy.com. Welcome, Lisa, to Evolving Humans. Thank you for being with us today.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Julia Marie, I am delighted to be with you and your audience. I've really been enjoying listening to evolving humans and the guests that you have on your podcast, so this is such a delight and honor for me. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I always like to start with the same question. What was it like growing up in Lisa's house?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I like that question because it really sets some context for us and for listeners. The home I grew up in is very different than the home it is now. My parents had some emotional wounding that kept them from being as loving and supportive as I needed and wish that they would've been at that time. And the gift in
that is that it caused me to start therapy as a client at the age of 21. And if I wouldn't have done that, I would never be sitting with you here, Julia Marie, because I fell in love with the process of self-discovery
through therapy. And I wanted to do what my therapist Marilyn was doing with me, which is help people love themselves more, find self-forgiveness, which can help us understand others and become more forgiving and start to have an easier life.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, I like actually Lisa, how you framed that. Let me find the gift in my raising.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So let's just start, if you could, by explaining what Chiron is and how long it's been a part of the astrology matrix.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's a wonderful question. Chiron itself is a placement in our astrological birth chart, much like you know, your sun sign or your rising and your moon sign. Chiron in our birth chart identifies an area of specific, and this is on the spectrum vulnerability up to and including core emotional wounding when
we've experienced things like abandonment or abuse or neglect, and these experiences cause recurring issues, themes, and problems in our lives when we don't understand how we've been affected by some of
these events and the meaning that we then made about ourselves, we might not feel as if we're worthy or deserving of good things. And to understand where Chiron is can help you start to really focus your
healing and your affirmations upon this one area of vulnerability or core wounding. And it's been immensely helpful to me and my clients.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Now the other thing that, and I think that's something you coined, is the word psycho astrology. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It is correct.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Can you explain what that actually means?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Sure. Julia. Marie, I love words. And to me, psycho astrology is simply where our birth chart astrology meets our personal psychology, meaning our nurturing, the way we were raised, and then how we choose to continue to raise ourselves as adults, as evidenced by the thoughts that we think about ourselves in life,
which create the belief systems we have. And those belief systems dictate the actions that we take or don't take. And I really want to help people change in the realm of thought so that we can create new and better beliefs to support us and living the lives we more want and desire to live.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Wouldn't it be true then that a lot of the thoughts and belief systems that we accumulate aren't a lot of those unconscious? We're not even aware that they're happening as we're experiencing them.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And I think that's true until we really start to take a deeper dive into our minds. And I sense you have a lot of self-reflection and awareness, and as you know, we can cultivate this within ourselves to pause when something doesn't feel good or when we are in a certain mood, maybe feeling slightly off depressed or
angry, frustrated, and to pause and ask, what's going on here? What am I thinking about? And we can tune in to what is going on in the background and take some time to be with that. How do you see that?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
What understand about myself, the only person I can talk about is the first thing I need to do when I feel a little upset or off is do exactly what you said. And that is what's going on? Where did that start? Now, a lot of times I won't have that understanding in the moment. It will take some self-reflection later in order
for me to see what was it that triggered me? And then I just have to be kind to myself
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And what you're speaking, that's the path. That's exactly what I share in my book the way you eloquently describe to have a trigger happen, pause to see what's going on here with me and what do I need. And often I think we need, like you said, some more softness towards ourselves, some empathy, and to know
that we're all on a journey and when we want to heal and be more self-accountable and self-aware, that starts to get easier the more that we practice it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Why this book and why now?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I have always wanted to write a book. I sense many of our listeners, I have notebooks of pages where I started notes abandoned them so many, and somehow this, when it came to me, I was asking the question
to the universe, to God, why is it I have so many successful clients that are still experiencing depression and anxiety and why am I? And as I meditated and sought to listen for the answer, I just started to hear Chiron. And I wasn't very excited to be honest because I remembered Carl Yung, the wounded healer
archetype from grad school. I don't know what I was expecting. It wasn't that yet when something starts prodding us to really, I know the feeling like Lisa, take some time with this. And I started to Google and research and I learned that going back to early psychoanalytic literature, Sigmund Freud was the first to
name these recurring and painful cyclical patterns.
(08:06):
And he called it the repetition compulsion. And then Eric Erickson, who founded the stages of psychosocial development, wrote about the way people make the same mistakes over and over in an attempt to master them. But you brought up the unconscious. When we're not conscious of what our
beliefs are, they can keep coming up sideways and kind of bamboozling us until we really pause to take some time to be with ourselves. And this started to get exciting because again, the object ionist, which I studied, talked about how our early relationship with our caretakers is a template of adult relationships
that we have and how we repeat those patterns. So I just kept seeing this pattern issue and that's what Chiron is about, our patterns that we play out with others and with ourselves. And I just wanted to help people and myself to go beyond these patterns so that we can have less triggers, or when we are triggered,
it's of a lesser intensity and or a shorter duration and we can get back to living.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Why should I pay attention to my woundings? I just ignore them and live my life because the past is the past and I can't change it anyway. Right?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yes, great question. And you can ignore them and you don't have to work with your wounds or look at them, but they're going to keep coming up in sideways manners and you'll experience relationship issues
in the same form, different person leaving you feeling abandoned or unworthy or in the same kind of argument, but with a different person wondering what's going on here? And I think people might be afraid to look at these wounds, but it's more scary not to because you're creating by default instead of just
looking at a few things around how we believe about ourselves and then how that sets up a dynamic with others and becoming more self-aware, which is our word today, truly is the key. And I think it softens the landing we have with others to be in this feedback loop with ourselves. And it's helped me at least.
(10:24):
And I like that you speak about from your experiences, what I've learned from my experience, the more I've grown interpersonally and worked with my Chiron placement in Aries of a wounding and my sense
of value and worth, it's not readily noticeable by people outside, but in my own mind, it's been this hamster wheel of performance and achievement believing that's going to cause me to feel happy and good
enough and it didn't. And I had to pause and come to a place where Lisa, if you never do another thing, it's time to really just feel proud to wake up and breathe and to what do you enjoy and tune more into what makes me happy in addition to achievement, but in being to just be in nature, to be with my cats, to
call a friend, and just the ways it's going to help you take some new and different steps. That's what's been so wonderful for me to be able to expand myself.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Well, and the thing I liked about the way you laid the book out was anybody can go right to their birth sign and see their placement and probably recognize pretty instantaneously, oh, that's why this is this way in my life. I would like to ask if you could explain the difference between Chiron's core wound in an
astrological sign versus the wound in an astrological house of a person's natal chart, because that can be a little confusing sometimes.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yes. And it felt confusing writing it. So simply spoken Chiron in a sign that is the actual vulnerability slash wounding, and it could be Chiron and Taurus. It's wounding by neglect. Chiron in the sign of cancer. It's wounding through abandonment. Chiron in the sign of Gemini. It's in your experience of being
empathetically attuned to, and you often may feel misunderstood. So that's Chiron in the sign. Chiron in the house is simply where this wound manifests. Is it in your business life at work or is it in your marriage or relationship? Is it you with yourself first house, which is our personal identity and our self-esteem
versus the fifth house, which has to do with our physical health. And to assess your house placement, you would need to have your time of birth. And not everyone has that. And the good news is that you pretty much know where this manifests once you read about the wounding and the vulnerability, oh, that's what
was happening with so-and-so so you don't need to have the time of birth.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
How can I move from awareness of my core wounding into the transformation of that core wound? How do I move from wounding to healing?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
It starts to happen the moment we have awareness that there's a need. And I don't know if you've experienced, but I've experienced when I have an aha moment, it's like something opens up within my heart and mind where it's like the shift just starts to happen because then you get curious and interested in
learning more. And that's the path, that's the healing path. You want to learn more about how say maybe something is one or 2% my responsibility, 98% someone else's, but if you really understand your one or
2%, and my mentor, Catherine Woodward Thomas taught me that, who I referenced in my book, she's a New York Times bestseller of Conscious Uncoupling and calling in the one. And I learned so much from her about understanding our 1% is key because when we take responsibility for that, no matter how small it might be, we're showing up differently with others and for ourselves. And we might say some things and we might not say things we used to. So I think really that self-accountability piece is so exciting for
me. It doesn't mean you're at fault or I'm to blame for everything, but it's like this is what I can do to think differently and show up differently, and then we experience different outcomes as a result. How do you believe about that?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Well, if we don't, number one, take responsibility for our part in whatever the process is, we're never going to make any progress. And really the only person I can fix or change is myself anyway. I'm going to find and own my one or 2%, and that should shift how the world responds to me.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yes, yes. You were very eloquent. Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
One of the reasons why I wanted you on was to speak to people about a way that they could possibly shift some of the recurring patterns. I do a lot of readings and a lot of people that come are always asking, why do I always get the same situation in a different package?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yes,
Speaker 1 (15:44):
That's it. If I decide aside, I want to take responsibility, I want to be accountable for how I move in the world, I want to start this healing journey. Can my core wounding be unquote permanently healed, or is it going to continue to crop up?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
It's such a good question, and I've had different answers to this at different stages in my life and my growth my age. And so where I sit today at 53 and a half is that yes, we can absolutely deeply heal these wounds. And in my experience, they will come up from time to time because we're human and we're
relating to others and someone brushes up against us in an emotional sense, and our hackles come up and we're triggered to feel all kinds of ways. But what I've noticed is that it doesn't go as deep. I don't go to that place of abandonment anymore and feeling so alone and feeling unworthy and even feeling suicidal,
that doesn't happen anymore. When I'm triggered, it'll be something that lasts for a much shorter duration of time. And the intensity might be sharp, but it's so much shorter because I'm able to have self-awareness about what's going on here and take some time for myself to be with it, to be that part of me, or it's, yeah.
So I feel like, and there'll be long stretches where I'm not triggered at all, and I'm feeling really awesome in my life. So I do think this healing is lifelong with little mini kind of tuneups we might need. What is your experience?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I would say that to expect permanent healing of anything while you're still in a human body is asking a lot because the human experience is about learning and growth. It's a classroom. If I feel like I've healed my wound through and whatever else I may be doing, then I'm not going to beat myself up if it crops up
somehow. I'm just going to be compassionate and as you said, give myself some time with it and do the self-care that I need to do and then just move on.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Some people might be wondering, so what are some of the challenges or difficulties that an unhealed Chiron wounding could lead to?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
It depends on your placement, but some of those issues look and sound like you're experiencing what I mentioned moments ago, Chiron and Gemini being misunderstood. And it can be so frustrating to feel like you're communicating clearly yet the way you are received is very different than your intention. That
would be an example of Chiron operating in your life in an unaware and unhealed way, as well as if you're having a lot of health issues, you might be neglecting your health to take care of others and putting yourself on the back burner and then feeling resentment that other people might not want to help you with
things. And my sense is that others might not even know you want or need help because you probably show up acting like you've got it all together when secretly inside you're really suffering. And it might look like as well, Chiron and Aquarius, which talks to feeling really disconnected from a sense of community.
(19:21):
You might really feel like an island isolated and alone. And I talk about trying to connect with others over something meaningful to and for you, it might be a humanitarian cause or it might be art or nature. And to start creating community through the things that really make you happy when you do them alone and see
if you can find others to join in and do that with. I feel like it only takes one or two people. I used to think when I was younger I needed to have 15, 20 friends. And now as I'm older, I just need a couple of really lovely and beautiful friends to fill my heart fully.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Well, actually, it only takes one really good one. And you could be set for life,
Speaker 2 (20:06):
You yourself. And I think even with the friendship with yourself
Speaker 1 (20:10):
To
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Really nurture and cultivate through all of this, I think Chiron's really pointing us to having a deeper and better relationship with ourselves. And that to me has just been so freeing to be able to go to dinner by myself and walk in nature and feel really enriched by my own company and in my own thoughts. And I
think I want to keep growing in that way. And I think that's when we really feel deep satisfaction and that causes us to live our purpose because we have clarity around what's important to us, and we can engage more in those things and lessen the things that spin us out or deplete our energy.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
The discussion has got me thinking, well, maybe I'd like to do something about this. How do I find where
Chiron's in my chart?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yes. Well, in my book, there's a chart, a paper chart where you can look at the year you were born in and the month as well as at my website, there's an interactive free thing that you can put in your date of birth, place of birth, and time of birth if you have it. And when you hit enter, it generates, Chiron is in blah,
blah, blah. So that's the easiest way I think. Or if you're already using a software or a website with astrology, some of them have Chiron, some don't. And that was always interesting to me, Julia Marie, that it was never shared with me what my Chiron placement was in an astrological reading. And I hope that
changes more and more in the future.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Is it perhaps because of Chiron's classification?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Maybe. So, yeah,
Speaker 1 (21:48):
It's not really a planet, but
Speaker 2 (21:51):
It's changed. It's changed. When it was first discovered in I believe 1978, it was classified as a, now it's a comet and a minor planet. I think at one point it was an asteroid. So there's a lot of, I think, confusion
over what Chiron is, but it is a heavenly body in our solar system that orbits between Saturn and Uranus and an odd elliptical orbit. And it was the first heavenly body noticed by astronomers to have an elliptical orbit versus a round orbit. So it was one of the cent class, the Centura parking back to Chiron, the Cent
and Greek mythology, and then the Carl Yung reference. So I thought I start my book with that, just helping you understand where this name came from. And I just think it's so cool how we see Chiron in different places.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Thanks for writing the book.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
And I write this book, Julia Marie as a psychotherapist, not as an astrologer. And I know when I've had lots of beautiful comments about my book and reviews, and the only ones that were negative said it. I didn't go deep enough into astrology, but I'm very clear I'm not an astrologer. And I referenced
astrologers in the back of my book if you want that. I really want you to have this information to take personal responsibility for your healing and to become more self-aware and self forgiving and more empathetic. That's why I wrote this book. It is a psychological book using the placement of Chiron from astrology as a diagnostic point.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Well, personally, your approach is very helpful because for people that aren't really into astrology, throwing a bunch of astrological stuff in there would've simply muddied the water.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Let the astrologers, the astrology.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And there are astrological books on Chiron, like Barbara Hand Claw I believe writes beautifully about Chiron astrologically, and she's been an author for so many years talking about this, so I would defer to her. If you want to learn more about the astrological piece,
Speaker 1 (24:03):
I'd like to change gears for a moment if that's okay. I noticed the last chapter in your book mentioned the Chiron wound for the United States based on its general birth chart information. So I'm assuming then this information you've presented in the book can be applied to the collective in some ways. Like for
example, what's our nation's core wound?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yes. And that was so interesting for me to discover that I took the Declaration of Independence date and put it into my interactive website, and it generated Chiron in the sign of Aries, which was surprising to me at first because it has to do with this wounding and one sense of value and worth the country's sense of
value and worth. And I thought that was almost wrong because we're the most powerful nation in the world. Yet when I look to how we're not really taking care of our own children still don't have books in some schools in the south and rural inner city areas and the homeless population in certain cities and veterans are veterans that serve to protect, and we see them homeless and not having adequately what
they need. So I think the us, the healing is really in making more available ways that we can take care of ourselves better. And this placement has to do with taking care of our own people.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So as a citizen of this nation, what can I do to help heal my nation's core wounding?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I think it's by healing ourselves, Julia Marie. I think it's through personal accountability to take care of you. And like you said earlier, we can only change ourselves. And I think when we're about that lovingly
and empathetically, that's what changes the world. People becoming healthier, changes our world.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
That's true. Thank you for the time you've spent here today. It's been a great conversation. And if there's
one thing that you would want the audience to take away from the conversation, what's the most important thing they need to know or do?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
As I'm sitting here right now with you? What's coming up around that is for us to, and I think this has been our theme, to be more gentle and empathetic towards ourselves, more curious and compassionate versus critical and judgmental, and to ask what's going on with me some more? What's going on with me
around this, whatever this is, whatever the trigger is, what's going on here? And not being afraid to take some time to look more deeply at maybe what some of your experiences have been that caused you to be wounded, how you've made meaning about yourself as a result. And to start to want to shift that to feeling
more worthy and deserving. Because once you do that for yourself, you'll be able to give it to others, your children, your partner, your work, your friends, and it kind of softens life for you.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Well, and that's the key. If we don't do for ourselves, what do we have that we can give to other people of ourselves?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, truly we can't give from an empty will.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Before we close, I need for you to please tell the people how they can find you.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Awesome. And also, I would love to offer your audience, our audience, half off a session with me, and if they're interested to do a phone or zoom session, if you all just reach out and mention Julia Marie or Evolving Humans, and I'd be happy to gif half off $190 session to you. It's 45 minutes long, and you can
find me@nolatherapy.com. It stands for New Orleans los angeles therapy.com, and I'm at NOLA Therapy on Instagram. And you can email me lisa@nolatherapy.com. Whatever's easiest.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom with the Evolving Humans community today, and I'm grateful to you for your generous contribution to the expansion of our collective awareness.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Well, that's our time for today. Thank you for continuing to support this podcast. With your subscriptions and your shares evolving Humans is now on YouTube, please click the link in the show notes and hit the subscribe button. You won't want to miss the extra content that's posted there, including new installments
of the channeling project and guided meditations designed to benefit your spiritual journey. And now here's a quote for you to ponder as you go about your day until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate. Carl Jung.